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322 Dead in Russian Hostage Crisis

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These terrorists are completely evil! BESLAN, Russia — President Vladimir Putin ordered the borders of North Ossetia closed Saturday as security forces searched the southern region for militants who escaped the Russian storming of a school where they had held hundreds of people hostage, many who fled the building under fire. A news agency reported 322 bodies were pulled from the rubble. Another 500 or so people remained hospitalized following the bloody and chaotic gunbattle Friday. Many were said to have been killed or wounded when a roof collapsed from an explosion before the Russian assault of the building began. "All Russia grieves with you," Putin said during a visit to the scene Saturday, carried on government television. "Even alongside the most cruel attacks of the past, this terrorist act occupies a special place because it was aimed at children." The ITAR-Tass news agency quoted Russian Deputy Prosecutor Sergei Fridinsky as saying 322 bodies, including those of 155 children, had been recovered from the school. It was a stunning figure because Russian officials had said only a day before that there were only 350 hostages — a number that turned out to be at least three times lower than now believed. Putin said he had ordered North Ossetia's borders closed while officials searched for suspects in the hostage-taking, carried out by militants seeking independence for the nearby republic of Chechnya. "One of the goals of the terrorists was to sow ethnic enmity and blow up the North Caucasus," Putin said. "Anyone who gives in to such a provocation will be viewed by us as abetting terrorism," he said. Valery Andreyev, Russia's Federal Security Service chief in the region, said 10 Arabs were among 27 militants killed. The Arab presence among the attackers would support Putin's contention that al-Qaida terrorists were deeply involved in the Chechen conflict, where Muslim fighters have been battling Russian forces on and off for more than a decade. The Federal Security Service chief in North Ossetia, Valery Andreyev, said more than 30 militants had seized the school. Channel One and NTV television reported that three of them had been captured. New evidence suggested the attack had been planned long beforehand. Andreyev said Saturday that investigators were looking into whether militants had smuggled the explosives and weapons into the school and hidden them during a renovation this summer. For some North Ossetians, grief had turned to anger. "Fathers will bury their children, and after 40 days (the Orthodox Christian mourning period) ... they will take up weapons and seek revenge," said Alan Kargiyev, a 20-year-old university student in the regional capital Vladikavkaz. The attack follows a suicide bomb attack outside a Moscow subway station Tuesday that killed eight people, and last week's near-simultaneous crash of two Russian jetliners last week after what officials believe were explosions on board. Those attacks were also linked to the conflict in Chechnya. Putin arrived with smoke still rising from the shattered school, just hours after the last scattered shooting died away. On Friday, commandos stormed the building and battled militants as crying children, some half-naked and covered with blood, fled through explosions and gunfire. Other children lay dead on stretchers lined up outside. Dozens of people crowded around lists of survivors posted at the Beslan hospital, searching desperately for news of loved ones who were not yet accounted for. A man showed hospital nurses a photograph — a young boy dressed in a suit, like he was going to a birthday party or holiday celebration. "We run here, we run there, like we're out of our minds, trying to find out anything we can about them," said Tsiada Biazrova, 47, whose neighbors' children had yet to be found. The majority of the dead who were found in the gym were killed by explosions before the assault began, causing part of the roof to collapse, Interfax and ITAR-Tass said, citing North Ossetian police. An explosives expert told NTV television that the hostage-takers, themselves strapped with explosives, hung bombs from basketball hoops in the gym and set other explosive devices in the building. Russian authorities said they stormed the building after the militants set off explosions and fired shots as emergency teams approached to collect the bodies of several men killed earlier. They said the hostage-takers had given them permission to take the corpses away. As hostages took their chance to flee, the militants opened fire on them, and security forces — along with town residents who had brought their own weapons — opened covering fire to help the hostages escape. Commandos stormed into the building and secured it, then chased fleeing militants in the town, with shooting lasting for 10 hours. Fleeing hostages, many of them wounded, streamed from the building into the surrounding area and parents searched frantically for their children. Ambulances couldn't carry all the injured and private cars were pressed into service. The operation ended a 62-hour ordeal that began when masked gunmen burst into the school courtyard on Wednesday, shooting in the air and herding people into the gym. The region's governor, Alexander Dzasokhov, said Friday that the militants had demanded that Russian troops leave Chechnya — the first solid indication that the attack was connected to the rebellion. Hostages told of more than two days of unspeakable horror — of children so frightened they couldn't sleep, of captors coolly threatening to kill off hostages one by one. The gym where they were held was so cramped there was hardly room to move and so hot adults encouraged children to strip off their clothes. When children fainted from lack of sleep, food and water, their captors simply sneered, said Alla Gadieyeva, 24, who was taken captive with her 7-year-old son and mother, all three among the survivors. "They were totally indifferent," Gadieyeva said. President Bush said the hostage siege was "another grim reminder" of the lengths to which terrorists will go. World governments joined Washington in condemning the militants. Putin warned against letting the latest attack in North Ossetia stir up tensions in the multiethnic North Caucasus region. "One of the goals of the terrorists was to sow ethnic enmity and blow up the North Caucasus," Putin said. "Anyone who gives in to such a provocation will be viewed by us as abetting terrorism," he said. Putin saw several of the hospitalized victims, stopping to stroke the head of one injured child and the arm of a woman. Two emergency services workers were killed and three wounded, Interfax reported. Eighteen wounded commandos were being treated in a Defense Ministry hospital in the town of Vladikavkaz, the news agency reported, most of them with bullet wounds. Intermittent negotiations led to the freeing of about 26 women and children on Thursday, and Russian officials and others had been in on-and-off contacts with the hostage-takers, but with few signs of progress toward a resolution. Russian officials stressed that they had not planned to storm the school. The militants had reportedly threatened to blow up the building if authorities used force. Two major hostage-taking raids by Chechen rebels outside the war-torn region in the past decade provoked Russian rescue operations that led to many deaths. The seizure of a Moscow theater in 2002 ended after a knockout gas was pumped into the building, debilitating the captors but causing almost all of the 129 hostage deaths. In 1995 — during the first of two wars in Chechnya in the past decade — rebels led by guerrilla commander Shamil Basayev seized a hospital in the southern Russian city of Budyonnovsk, taking some 2,000 people hostage. The six-day standoff ended with a fierce Russian assault, and some 100 people died. http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,131437,00.html
 
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Unbelievable!! How can people think that the US should not offensively fight the WAR on TERROR when things are like this?





Originally Posted by KittySkyfish

These terrorists are completely evil! BESLAN, Russia — President Vladimir Putin ordered the borders of North Ossetia closed Saturday as security forces searched the southern region for militants who escaped the Russian storming of a school where they had held hundreds of people hostage, many who fled the building under fire. A news agency reported 322 bodies were pulled from the rubble. Another 500 or so people remained hospitalized following the bloody and chaotic gunbattle Friday. Many were said to have been killed or wounded when a roof collapsed from an explosion before the Russian assault of the building began. "All Russia grieves with you," Putin said during a visit to the scene Saturday, carried on government television. "Even alongside the most cruel attacks of the past, this terrorist act occupies a special place because it was aimed at children." The ITAR-Tass news agency quoted Russian Deputy Prosecutor Sergei Fridinsky as saying 322 bodies, including those of 155 children, had been recovered from the school. It was a stunning figure because Russian officials had said only a day before that there were only 350 hostages — a number that turned out to be at least three times lower than now believed. Putin said he had ordered North Ossetia's borders closed while officials searched for suspects in the hostage-taking, carried out by militants seeking independence for the nearby republic of Chechnya. "One of the goals of the terrorists was to sow ethnic enmity and blow up the North Caucasus," Putin said. "Anyone who gives in to such a provocation will be viewed by us as abetting terrorism," he said. Valery Andreyev, Russia's Federal Security Service chief in the region, said 10 Arabs were among 27 militants killed. The Arab presence among the attackers would support Putin's contention that al-Qaida terrorists were deeply involved in the Chechen conflict, where Muslim fighters have been battling Russian forces on and off for more than a decade. The Federal Security Service chief in North Ossetia, Valery Andreyev, said more than 30 militants had seized the school. Channel One and NTV television reported that three of them had been captured. New evidence suggested the attack had been planned long beforehand. Andreyev said Saturday that investigators were looking into whether militants had smuggled the explosives and weapons into the school and hidden them during a renovation this summer. For some North Ossetians, grief had turned to anger. "Fathers will bury their children, and after 40 days (the Orthodox Christian mourning period) ... they will take up weapons and seek revenge," said Alan Kargiyev, a 20-year-old university student in the regional capital Vladikavkaz. The attack follows a suicide bomb attack outside a Moscow subway station Tuesday that killed eight people, and last week's near-simultaneous crash of two Russian jetliners last week after what officials believe were explosions on board. Those attacks were also linked to the conflict in Chechnya. Putin arrived with smoke still rising from the shattered school, just hours after the last scattered shooting died away. On Friday, commandos stormed the building and battled militants as crying children, some half-naked and covered with blood, fled through explosions and gunfire. Other children lay dead on stretchers lined up outside. Dozens of people crowded around lists of survivors posted at the Beslan hospital, searching desperately for news of loved ones who were not yet accounted for. A man showed hospital nurses a photograph — a young boy dressed in a suit, like he was going to a birthday party or holiday celebration. "We run here, we run there, like we're out of our minds, trying to find out anything we can about them," said Tsiada Biazrova, 47, whose neighbors' children had yet to be found. The majority of the dead who were found in the gym were killed by explosions before the assault began, causing part of the roof to collapse, Interfax and ITAR-Tass said, citing North Ossetian police. An explosives expert told NTV television that the hostage-takers, themselves strapped with explosives, hung bombs from basketball hoops in the gym and set other explosive devices in the building. Russian authorities said they stormed the building after the militants set off explosions and fired shots as emergency teams approached to collect the bodies of several men killed earlier. They said the hostage-takers had given them permission to take the corpses away. As hostages took their chance to flee, the militants opened fire on them, and security forces — along with town residents who had brought their own weapons — opened covering fire to help the hostages escape. Commandos stormed into the building and secured it, then chased fleeing militants in the town, with shooting lasting for 10 hours. Fleeing hostages, many of them wounded, streamed from the building into the surrounding area and parents searched frantically for their children. Ambulances couldn't carry all the injured and private cars were pressed into service. The operation ended a 62-hour ordeal that began when masked gunmen burst into the school courtyard on Wednesday, shooting in the air and herding people into the gym. The region's governor, Alexander Dzasokhov, said Friday that the militants had demanded that Russian troops leave Chechnya — the first solid indication that the attack was connected to the rebellion. Hostages told of more than two days of unspeakable horror — of children so frightened they couldn't sleep, of captors coolly threatening to kill off hostages one by one. The gym where they were held was so cramped there was hardly room to move and so hot adults encouraged children to strip off their clothes. When children fainted from lack of sleep, food and water, their captors simply sneered, said Alla Gadieyeva, 24, who was taken captive with her 7-year-old son and mother, all three among the survivors. "They were totally indifferent," Gadieyeva said. President Bush said the hostage siege was "another grim reminder" of the lengths to which terrorists will go. World governments joined Washington in condemning the militants. Putin warned against letting the latest attack in North Ossetia stir up tensions in the multiethnic North Caucasus region. "One of the goals of the terrorists was to sow ethnic enmity and blow up the North Caucasus," Putin said. "Anyone who gives in to such a provocation will be viewed by us as abetting terrorism," he said. Putin saw several of the hospitalized victims, stopping to stroke the head of one injured child and the arm of a woman. Two emergency services workers were killed and three wounded, Interfax reported. Eighteen wounded commandos were being treated in a Defense Ministry hospital in the town of Vladikavkaz, the news agency reported, most of them with bullet wounds. Intermittent negotiations led to the freeing of about 26 women and children on Thursday, and Russian officials and others had been in on-and-off contacts with the hostage-takers, but with few signs of progress toward a resolution. Russian officials stressed that they had not planned to storm the school. The militants had reportedly threatened to blow up the building if authorities used force. Two major hostage-taking raids by Chechen rebels outside the war-torn region in the past decade provoked Russian rescue operations that led to many deaths. The seizure of a Moscow theater in 2002 ended after a knockout gas was pumped into the building, debilitating the captors but causing almost all of the 129 hostage deaths. In 1995 — during the first of two wars in Chechnya in the past decade — rebels led by guerrilla commander Shamil Basayev seized a hospital in the southern Russian city of Budyonnovsk, taking some 2,000 people hostage. The six-day standoff ended with a fierce Russian assault, and some 100 people died. http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,131437,00.html



 
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Exactly Tony, this could happen here too. We are no longer safe, the gates are open. We have to fight this, no question and Bush is the man to do it.

Originally Posted by Tony(admin) Unbelievable!! How can people think that the US should not offensively fight the WAR on TERROR when things are like this?
 
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Originally Posted by KittySkyfish These terrorists are completely evil!

BESLAN, Russia — President Vladimir Putin ordered the borders of North Ossetia closed Saturday as security forces searched the southern region for militants who escaped the Russian storming of a school where they had held hundreds of people hostage, many who fled the building under fire. A news agency reported 322 bodies were pulled from the rubble.

Another 500 or so people remained hospitalized following the bloody and chaotic gunbattle Friday. Many were said to have been killed or wounded when a roof collapsed from an explosion before the Russian assault of the building began.

"All Russia grieves with you," Putin said during a visit to the scene Saturday, carried on government television. "Even alongside the most cruel attacks of the past, this terrorist act occupies a special place because it was aimed at children."

The ITAR-Tass news agency quoted Russian Deputy Prosecutor Sergei Fridinsky as saying 322 bodies, including those of 155 children, had been recovered from the school. It was a stunning figure because Russian officials had said only a day before that there were only 350 hostages — a number that turned out to be at least three times lower than now believed.

Putin said he had ordered North Ossetia's borders closed while officials searched for suspects in the hostage-taking, carried out by militants seeking independence for the nearby republic of Chechnya.

"One of the goals of the terrorists was to sow ethnic enmity and blow up the North Caucasus," Putin said. "Anyone who gives in to such a provocation will be viewed by us as abetting terrorism," he said.

Valery Andreyev, Russia's Federal Security Service chief in the region, said 10 Arabs were among 27 militants killed. The Arab presence among the attackers would support Putin's contention that al-Qaida terrorists were deeply involved in the Chechen conflict, where Muslim fighters have been battling Russian forces on and off for more than a decade.

The Federal Security Service chief in North Ossetia, Valery Andreyev, said more than 30 militants had seized the school. Channel One and NTV television reported that three of them had been captured.

New evidence suggested the attack had been planned long beforehand. Andreyev said Saturday that investigators were looking into whether militants had smuggled the explosives and weapons into the school and hidden them during a renovation this summer.

For some North Ossetians, grief had turned to anger.

"Fathers will bury their children, and after 40 days (the Orthodox Christian mourning period) ... they will take up weapons and seek revenge," said Alan Kargiyev, a 20-year-old university student in the regional capital Vladikavkaz.

The attack follows a suicide bomb attack outside a Moscow subway station Tuesday that killed eight people, and last week's near-simultaneous crash of two Russian jetliners last week after what officials believe were explosions on board. Those attacks were also linked to the conflict in Chechnya.

Putin arrived with smoke still rising from the shattered school, just hours after the last scattered shooting died away.

On Friday, commandos stormed the building and battled militants as crying children, some half-naked and covered with blood, fled through explosions and gunfire. Other children lay dead on stretchers lined up outside.

Dozens of people crowded around lists of survivors posted at the Beslan hospital, searching desperately for news of loved ones who were not yet accounted for. A man showed hospital nurses a photograph — a young boy dressed in a suit, like he was going to a birthday party or holiday celebration.

"We run here, we run there, like we're out of our minds, trying to find out anything we can about them," said Tsiada Biazrova, 47, whose neighbors' children had yet to be found.

The majority of the dead who were found in the gym were killed by explosions before the assault began, causing part of the roof to collapse, Interfax and ITAR-Tass said, citing North Ossetian police.

An explosives expert told NTV television that the hostage-takers, themselves strapped with explosives, hung bombs from basketball hoops in the gym and set other explosive devices in the building.

Russian authorities said they stormed the building after the militants set off explosions and fired shots as emergency teams approached to collect the bodies of several men killed earlier. They said the hostage-takers had given them permission to take the corpses away.

As hostages took their chance to flee, the militants opened fire on them, and security forces — along with town residents who had brought their own weapons — opened covering fire to help the hostages escape. Commandos stormed into the building and secured it, then chased fleeing militants in the town, with shooting lasting for 10 hours.

Fleeing hostages, many of them wounded, streamed from the building into the surrounding area and parents searched frantically for their children. Ambulances couldn't carry all the injured and private cars were pressed into service.

The operation ended a 62-hour ordeal that began when masked gunmen burst into the school courtyard on Wednesday, shooting in the air and herding people into the gym.

The region's governor, Alexander Dzasokhov, said Friday that the militants had demanded that Russian troops leave Chechnya — the first solid indication that the attack was connected to the rebellion.

Hostages told of more than two days of unspeakable horror — of children so frightened they couldn't sleep, of captors coolly threatening to kill off hostages one by one. The gym where they were held was so cramped there was hardly room to move and so hot adults encouraged children to strip off their clothes.

When children fainted from lack of sleep, food and water, their captors simply sneered, said Alla Gadieyeva, 24, who was taken captive with her 7-year-old son and mother, all three among the survivors.

"They were totally indifferent," Gadieyeva said.

President Bush said the hostage siege was "another grim reminder" of the lengths to which terrorists will go. World governments joined Washington in condemning the militants.

Putin warned against letting the latest attack in North Ossetia stir up tensions in the multiethnic North Caucasus region. "One of the goals of the terrorists was to sow ethnic enmity and blow up the North Caucasus," Putin said.

"Anyone who gives in to such a provocation will be viewed by us as abetting terrorism," he said.

Putin saw several of the hospitalized victims, stopping to stroke the head of one injured child and the arm of a woman.

Two emergency services workers were killed and three wounded, Interfax reported. Eighteen wounded commandos were being treated in a Defense Ministry hospital in the town of Vladikavkaz, the news agency reported, most of them with bullet wounds.

Intermittent negotiations led to the freeing of about 26 women and children on Thursday, and Russian officials and others had been in on-and-off contacts with the hostage-takers, but with few signs of progress toward a resolution.

Russian officials stressed that they had not planned to storm the school. The militants had reportedly threatened to blow up the building if authorities used force.

Two major hostage-taking raids by Chechen rebels outside the war-torn region in the past decade provoked Russian rescue operations that led to many deaths. The seizure of a Moscow theater in 2002 ended after a knockout gas was pumped into the building, debilitating the captors but causing almost all of the 129 hostage deaths.

In 1995 — during the first of two wars in Chechnya in the past decade — rebels led by guerrilla commander Shamil Basayev seized a hospital in the southern Russian city of Budyonnovsk, taking some 2,000 people hostage. The six-day standoff ended with a fierce Russian assault, and some 100 people died.

http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,131437,00.html

I have read about this too and I think it is also evil personified. I saw the news pics and I am aghast! What type of "God" do they worship anyhow? A God that wants genocide, one who says "kill in my name?" I think it's scary that such crazy thinking has affected MILLIONS! That is so astounding to me. I think we're (Americans) next. I think these people will not stop. We are all infedels to them. Women killing children? Terrorizing them? That is so fundamentally different from anything that comes naturally that this makes me sick to my stomach. Historically these types of Islamic extremists have really gone nutty about every 50 years. I do not see it getting better. They are an insult to their own religion. What can we do but use fear to fight terror? These people are irrational and ()#))@)# up and they're armed and reasonably intelligent. This is why we have forces in Iraq!! This is why Bin Laudin and his croonies need to be "taken care of."

This is so completely sad. All these poor Russian kids are traumatized and possibly ruined for life. I can't stand it. I am so sad. Is it me, or is this world OUT OF CONTROL now? You cannot watch the news while you are eating these days. That's for sure!

 
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Thank you very much for this Ryan, Hugs





Originally Posted by Californian

I have read about this too and I think it is also evil personified. I saw the news pics and I am aghast! What type of "God" do they worship anyhow? A God that wants genocide, one who says "kill in my name?" I think it's scary that such crazy thinking has affected MILLIONS! That is so astounding to me. I think we're (Americans) next. I think these people will not stop. We are all infedels to them. Women killing children? Terrorizing them? That is so fundamentally different from anything that comes naturally that this makes me sick to my stomach. Historically these types of Islamic extremists have really gone nutty about every 50 years. I do not see it getting better. They are an insult to their own religion. What can we do but use fear to fight terror? These people are irrational and ()#))@)# up and they're armed and reasonably intelligent. This is why we have forces in Iraq!! This is why Bin Laudin and his croonies need to be "taken care of."

This is so completely sad. All these poor Russian kids are traumatized and possibly ruined for life. I can't stand it. I am so sad. Is it me, or is this world OUT OF CONTROL now? You cannot watch the news while you are eating these days. That's for sure!





 
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I watched this as it happened on tv. Its appalling and inhuman and these terrorists are pure evil fanatics who have no human side to them. We have lived with terrorism in the uk for years. I lost a relative in 1972 when the Birmingham pub bombings happened. The whole world is faced with these terrorists who are in cells (groups) all over the world and this is what makes it so difficult in winning the war on terrorism. I dont see how it can be won as these people are like vermine and could attack at anytime. This is causing panic in people everywhere as you just never know where or when it will happen again. I dont think it will be won by war it will be won by intelligence . What happened in New York , Madrid , Bali and now Beslan has caused outrage and anger and hostility towards Muslims. While i dont blame all muslims for these attrocities, i am questioning my feelings towards them, which is only natural.

 
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I watched this on TV for a few hours over the past few days aswell donnamaryuk. It was absolutely awful. I won't mention a few of the stories i've read about in the newspapers, they're disgusting. Hope those kids will be ok & their parents

 
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What got me was the look of horror on those childrens faces and the weeping parents. Its so heartbreaking and i saw one of the terrorists on live tv being kicked to death by the local men. Best way to deal with them if you ask me, they are sub human.

 
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This is precisely why we as the United States need to be on the OFFENSIVE instead of the defensive for terrorism. We learned our lesson after 911 when it came to being on the defensive. I am glad that we can afford such a thing along with having the strongest and most advanced military around.
Unfortunately, some Americans feel that we should just sit back and wait until attacked again. Go Figure





Originally Posted by donnamaryuk

I watched this as it happened on tv. Its appalling and inhuman and these terrorists are pure evil fanatics who have no human side to them. We have lived with terrorism in the uk for years. I lost a relative in 1972 when the Birmingham pub bombings happened. The whole world is faced with these terrorists who are in cells (groups) all over the world and this is what makes it so difficult in winning the war on terrorism. I dont see how it can be won as these people are like vermine and could attack at anytime. This is causing panic in people everywhere as you just never know where or when it will happen again. I dont think it will be won by war it will be won by intelligence . What happened in New York , Madrid , Bali and now Beslan has caused outrage and anger and hostility towards Muslims. While i dont blame all muslims for these attrocities, i am questioning my feelings towards them, which is only natural.





 
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Big ditto that! Whats that matter with them, the tree hugging hippies! j/k LOL!
 
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LOL!!






Originally Posted by Tinydancer

Big ditto that! Whats that matter with them, the tree hugging hippies! j/k LOL!





 
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Originally Posted by Irishgirl This is absolutely horrific! I understand that the world is composed of different religions, beliefs, political agendas, cultures, colors, etc..However, what about basic humanity? It's disturbing to me that "these people" have absolutely no regard for human life...Murdering adults is bad enough but what political belief or religious belief could possibly warrant the murdering of innocent children? I questioned the urgency of attacking Iraq when we did because I thought maybe we had "other interests" in the beginning besides democracy. I don't have all of the answers BUT do know that terrorism is widespread and we do need to take care of it even though my family might suffer the consequences this war directly due to my husband's job.
My husband will be directly in harm's way in the near future and I am fearful for his life..However, he is fighting for humanity, freedom, the common good, and world security...My upmost respect goes to those men/women who put their lives on the line to protect us everyday for they are the true heroes of this world.

I hear ya, Irishgirl. Looks like they might be bringing my brother in again, after all. They want to send him to Egypt to train soldiers. Anyway, DonnaMaryUk said that war is not the answer and that we can solve this terrorist mania with intelligence. How? I'd like to hear more on that.
Short of killing, how do you rationalize with folks whose "God" wants all 'infidels' dead? How do you rationalize with women and men who are willing to blow themselves up along with many innocents in the name of what is "right and true?" And how is it that this many people have succumed to such a Hitler-esque, genocidal, warfare on humanity? How is that ok? How is any of this rational???

Seriously, how else, besides FEAR .. do we handle these Machiavelian cretins, DonaMaryUK? I honestly want to hear any ideas. I'm open to them, but none so far have impressed me.



 
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I wish i knew the answer . Bombing Iraq was a bad move , it has caused more outrage and death . History has proved that resistance is the answer and intelligence and not bombs and a gung ho attitude. Look at our history in the UK ? You cant rationalise with maniacs who are religious fanatics and who are ignorant as shite. We need to infiltrate thes groups and cells from the inside. I dont think that Bush or Blaire are handling this in a positive way but i wish to god i had all the answers. I do believe that these muslim fanatics want to take over the western world but they dont stand a chance. They envy the west and this one of the root causes of their barbarism, envy. The way Bush and Blaire went into this was not properly thought out and was too reactionary. I dislike the terminology used such as Shock and awe etc , using too much rhetoric is not going to solve this problem . Remember that this war is not just against the USA, its against all of us who have a westernised life style but i still say that intelligence is the answer. Take all the major powers and all the special armed forces that exist and infiltrate this scum at the core. It will take time and i fear that this is just the begining of WW3. First 911, Madrid, Bali, now Russia. Machiavelli had a point and the way things are going we will all be nuked.

 
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Hey! Thanks for writing back so soon! I am really interested in your perspective. What do you think an inside infiltration process would look like? How and who would do that? How could it be effective? Has it worked in the past? We did not stop the Nazis throught this process though .. they were stopped by guns and fear. Please extrapolate on your idea. Tks, Cali

Originally Posted by donnamaryuk I wish i knew the answer . Bombing Iraq was a bad move , it has caused more outrage and death . History has proved that resistance is the answer and intelligence and not bombs and a gung ho attitude. Look at our history in the UK ? You cant rationalise with maniacs who are religious fanatics and who are ignorant as shite. We need to infiltrate thes groups and cells from the inside. I dont think that Bush or Blaire are handling this in a positive way but i wish to god i had all the answers. I do believe that these muslim fanatics want to take over the western world but they dont stand a chance. They envy the west and this one of the root causes of their barbarism, envy. The way Bush and Blaire went into this was not properly thought out and was too reactionary. I dislike the terminology used such as Shock and awe etc , using too much rhetoric is not going to solve this problem . Remember that this war is not just against the USA, its against all of us who have a westernised life style but i still say that intelligence is the answer. Take all the major powers and all the special armed forces that exist and infiltrate this scum at the core. It will take time and i fear that this is just the begining of WW3. First 911, Madrid, Bali, now Russia. Machiavelli had a point and the way things are going we will all be nuked.
 
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Oh I feel so sorry for him. Now that he is

feeling fear, maybe karma does exist... Funny how

sociopaths don't feel sorry for anyone but themselves.

Shame on you, Mr. Terrorist. You're lucky you

weren't kicked to death by the citizens whose lives you

ruined.

<TABLE cellSpacing=0 cellPadding=0 width=629 border=0><TBODY><TR><TD colSpan=3>'Hostage-taker' interviewed on TV Source

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The man seemed frightened, and at times was incoherent

</TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE><!-- E IIMA -->A man said to have been a hostage-taker in the school siege in the southern Russian town of Beslan has been shown on state television.

His hands bound, the frightened-looking man was shown being led by two hooded commandoes into a room, where he was briefly interviewed.

He said he had not wanted to die in the siege, and that as a father, he had felt pity for the child hostages.

Two days of national mourning have now begun, a day after the first funerals.

Flags are flying at half-mast, and all television entertainment programmes have been cancelled.

Authorities say at least 335 people died in the siege in the North Ossetia region, which came to a bloody and chaotic climax on Friday, but correspondents say unofficial figures suggest the real number could be closer to 400.

'Triumphalist'

Claims about the number and fate of the hostage-takers, who were demanding Chechen independence, have been vague and contradictory.

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I swear by Allah I did not shoot, I swear I did not shoot


Alleged hostage-taker

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At one point the authorities said that all of the hostage-takers, about 30 in number, had been killed.

The man who appeared on state television was said to have had shaved off his beard in order to try to escape with fleeing hostages when the siege collapsed.

Asked by a state TV reporter whether he felt sorry for the child hostages, the man replied: "I swear by Allah, I did feel sorry for them. I have got children too."

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Alina Khubetsova, 11, was buried with her dolls

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Asked whether he fired his weapon, he said: "I swear by Allah I did not shoot, I swear I did not shoot."

But later, pressed by his interviewer, he became less coherent before saying: "In general, I did not want to die anywhere. I do not want to die anywhere."

The man's accent suggests he is from the region and not a foreigner.

Correspondents say the report's tone was highly triumphalist and ended with images of the corpses of dead hostage-takers crawling with flies.

Missing

In Beslan, funerals began on Sunday with the burial of 24 of the siege victims in a field on the edge of town.

As the burials went ahead, 150 more graves were being dug and many more were being marked out.

But many families still do not know what has happened to their children. Almost 200 people are still officially missing.

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1 - At 0850 GMT a vehicle from the emergencies ministry is sent in to retrieve the bodies of those killed at the start of the siege.

2 - A series of blasts rock the gym, bringing the roof down.

3 - Hostages start running. The attackers fire at them to try to block their escape, prompting the troops outside to shoot back.



<!-- S ILIN -->How the siege ended

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Some may be unidentified in hospital - too young or too traumatised to give their names.

The bodies of others are in the morgues - so charred or mutilated as to be unrecognisable.

The Russian Red Cross has appealed for international assistance to provide mostly heavy medical equipment to the overstretched local hospitals trying to treat the injured, who now number nearly 400.

Seventeen of the most seriously injured, including 11 children, were transferred to hospitals in Moscow on Sunday.

Children at the school had been celebrating the start of the new school year with parents and staff on Wednesday morning when the heavily-armed gang took them hostage.

The crisis ended in carnage on Friday, as Russian troops moved in after bombs rigged up by the hostage-takers went off inside the building. Russian authorities are investigating claims that adults were told to hand hostage-takers weapons concealed under the school's floorboards. Correspondents say there are indications the weapons could have been hidden weeks before - an indication of how well-planned the operation was, and also how little hindered the perpetrators.

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Originally Posted by KittySkyfish These terrorists are completely evil!

BESLAN, Russia — President Vladimir Putin ordered the borders of North Ossetia closed Saturday as security forces searched the southern region for militants who escaped the Russian storming of a school where they had held hundreds of people hostage, many who fled the building under fire. A news agency reported 322 bodies were pulled from the rubble.

Another 500 or so people remained hospitalized following the bloody and chaotic gunbattle Friday. Many were said to have been killed or wounded when a roof collapsed from an explosion before the Russian assault of the building began.

"All Russia grieves with you," Putin said during a visit to the scene Saturday, carried on government television. "Even alongside the most cruel attacks of the past, this terrorist act occupies a special place because it was aimed at children."

The ITAR-Tass news agency quoted Russian Deputy Prosecutor Sergei Fridinsky as saying 322 bodies, including those of 155 children, had been recovered from the school. It was a stunning figure because Russian officials had said only a day before that there were only 350 hostages — a number that turned out to be at least three times lower than now believed.

Putin said he had ordered North Ossetia's borders closed while officials searched for suspects in the hostage-taking, carried out by militants seeking independence for the nearby republic of Chechnya.

"One of the goals of the terrorists was to sow ethnic enmity and blow up the North Caucasus," Putin said. "Anyone who gives in to such a provocation will be viewed by us as abetting terrorism," he said.

Valery Andreyev, Russia's Federal Security Service chief in the region, said 10 Arabs were among 27 militants killed. The Arab presence among the attackers would support Putin's contention that al-Qaida terrorists were deeply involved in the Chechen conflict, where Muslim fighters have been battling Russian forces on and off for more than a decade.

The Federal Security Service chief in North Ossetia, Valery Andreyev, said more than 30 militants had seized the school. Channel One and NTV television reported that three of them had been captured.

New evidence suggested the attack had been planned long beforehand. Andreyev said Saturday that investigators were looking into whether militants had smuggled the explosives and weapons into the school and hidden them during a renovation this summer.

For some North Ossetians, grief had turned to anger.

"Fathers will bury their children, and after 40 days (the Orthodox Christian mourning period) ... they will take up weapons and seek revenge," said Alan Kargiyev, a 20-year-old university student in the regional capital Vladikavkaz.

The attack follows a suicide bomb attack outside a Moscow subway station Tuesday that killed eight people, and last week's near-simultaneous crash of two Russian jetliners last week after what officials believe were explosions on board. Those attacks were also linked to the conflict in Chechnya.

Putin arrived with smoke still rising from the shattered school, just hours after the last scattered shooting died away.

On Friday, commandos stormed the building and battled militants as crying children, some half-naked and covered with blood, fled through explosions and gunfire. Other children lay dead on stretchers lined up outside.

Dozens of people crowded around lists of survivors posted at the Beslan hospital, searching desperately for news of loved ones who were not yet accounted for. A man showed hospital nurses a photograph — a young boy dressed in a suit, like he was going to a birthday party or holiday celebration.

"We run here, we run there, like we're out of our minds, trying to find out anything we can about them," said Tsiada Biazrova, 47, whose neighbors' children had yet to be found.

The majority of the dead who were found in the gym were killed by explosions before the assault began, causing part of the roof to collapse, Interfax and ITAR-Tass said, citing North Ossetian police.

An explosives expert told NTV television that the hostage-takers, themselves strapped with explosives, hung bombs from basketball hoops in the gym and set other explosive devices in the building.

Russian authorities said they stormed the building after the militants set off explosions and fired shots as emergency teams approached to collect the bodies of several men killed earlier. They said the hostage-takers had given them permission to take the corpses away.

As hostages took their chance to flee, the militants opened fire on them, and security forces — along with town residents who had brought their own weapons — opened covering fire to help the hostages escape. Commandos stormed into the building and secured it, then chased fleeing militants in the town, with shooting lasting for 10 hours.

Fleeing hostages, many of them wounded, streamed from the building into the surrounding area and parents searched frantically for their children. Ambulances couldn't carry all the injured and private cars were pressed into service.

The operation ended a 62-hour ordeal that began when masked gunmen burst into the school courtyard on Wednesday, shooting in the air and herding people into the gym.

The region's governor, Alexander Dzasokhov, said Friday that the militants had demanded that Russian troops leave Chechnya — the first solid indication that the attack was connected to the rebellion.

Hostages told of more than two days of unspeakable horror — of children so frightened they couldn't sleep, of captors coolly threatening to kill off hostages one by one. The gym where they were held was so cramped there was hardly room to move and so hot adults encouraged children to strip off their clothes.

When children fainted from lack of sleep, food and water, their captors simply sneered, said Alla Gadieyeva, 24, who was taken captive with her 7-year-old son and mother, all three among the survivors.

"They were totally indifferent," Gadieyeva said.

President Bush said the hostage siege was "another grim reminder" of the lengths to which terrorists will go. World governments joined Washington in condemning the militants.

Putin warned against letting the latest attack in North Ossetia stir up tensions in the multiethnic North Caucasus region. "One of the goals of the terrorists was to sow ethnic enmity and blow up the North Caucasus," Putin said.

"Anyone who gives in to such a provocation will be viewed by us as abetting terrorism," he said.

Putin saw several of the hospitalized victims, stopping to stroke the head of one injured child and the arm of a woman.

Two emergency services workers were killed and three wounded, Interfax reported. Eighteen wounded commandos were being treated in a Defense Ministry hospital in the town of Vladikavkaz, the news agency reported, most of them with bullet wounds.

Intermittent negotiations led to the freeing of about 26 women and children on Thursday, and Russian officials and others had been in on-and-off contacts with the hostage-takers, but with few signs of progress toward a resolution.

Russian officials stressed that they had not planned to storm the school. The militants had reportedly threatened to blow up the building if authorities used force.

Two major hostage-taking raids by Chechen rebels outside the war-torn region in the past decade provoked Russian rescue operations that led to many deaths. The seizure of a Moscow theater in 2002 ended after a knockout gas was pumped into the building, debilitating the captors but causing almost all of the 129 hostage deaths.

In 1995 — during the first of two wars in Chechnya in the past decade — rebels led by guerrilla commander Shamil Basayev seized a hospital in the southern Russian city of Budyonnovsk, taking some 2,000 people hostage. The six-day standoff ended with a fierce Russian assault, and some 100 people died.

http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,131437,00.html

 
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In answer to your question Californian, have you ever heard of what the Norwegians did in Telemark ? have you ever read any books on the jewish resistance fighters ? Have you ever read anything about the French Resistance ? Or did you only catch Private Ryan at the movies ? Enough already from me, i only joined to talk about make up, if i want to debate this stuff i stick to the Washington post or the Daily mail etc. I would rather pray for those poor souls than debate today. Hope you can appreciate this. Donna .

 
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Originally Posted by Irishgirl I understand what you mean about infiltrating everything at the source but I still think more needs to be done because those terrorist views trickle outside of just Al Qaeda. The extremist views, etc..extend out to the people of these countries not just Al Qaeda or these other political groups. "Holy Wars" etc..are some of the most difficult to fight because they have been going on since the beginning of time. While we could try to get Al Qaeda at the source, most of the Arab countries do not function with democracy like we do..They will die for their cause and take innocent people with them in the process. I mean, look at the women's rights out there in those countries..zilch! I think we need to be proactive and tap into all sources terrorism..To me, that means governments reforming, better intelligence, and military presence where needed. I suppose we could have let the Arab world and these other countries do what they want and not get involved..However, they made us get involved when they started terrorizing our country..They didn't want to keep all of this garbage in their own backyard; they had to go after our country as well.
Yes, I think that the whole chain of command when it came to intelligence greatly failed us on 9-11. Hopefully, by now, we are restructuring these agencies so this doesn't happen again. Clinton had the opportunity to have Bin Laden captured in Saudi Arabia but chose not to get the job done back then when he could have. Saddam and his sons were major Al Qaeda funders..Not to mention, Iraq hid many of their members. I know we started with Iraq because "we" said they had WMD, etc..and I am not sure just how much they had..Regardless, Saddam needed to be removed a long time ago. We have captured many of the high-ranking Al Qaeda members already and it's only a matter of time before Bin Laden drops dead from his own poor health..One can hope! LOL! I agree that we have lost many service members due to this war and my heart feels for the families..But if you compare the death toll of this war to that of Normandy, the casualties have been a lot fewer. Of course, I am not minimizing the loss of life here as every life lost; is 1 too many. I just believe it's going to take a multi-step approach to rid the world of terrorism and these people don't negotiate by talking; they kill instead and they kill many innocent people. Then they come over to our country and kill our people too..There are no perfect answers I suppose; I just know that terrorism as whole is a serious problem that has to be dealt with.

If we cannot infiltrate them with slingshots, I'd like to infiltrate them with education. I am so glad to hear that women/girls are now being educated there. Here comes a sexist remark: If their women were ruling, I wonder if we'd be in this mess? Ok, so maybe about once a month things would get a little chaotic in Iraq, but the other 23 days of the month might be a lot more peaceful.
How about a grass-roots, infrastructure rehaul where we empower them to empower themselves through our sly capitalistic and democratic ways? They maintain their pride, they get their needs met through studies on making the most of their natural resources, we give them a bit of help, educate them, and let them go?



 

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